Sunday, March 29, 2009

I Never Realized How Important The Lack of Tenure Can Be

It's hard to fire teachers, even if they are bad - St. Petersburg Times

Thanks to The Gradebook for the above link.

It must be a great disadvantage to not have tenure.
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10 comments:

Thomas Vaughan said...

I think you could investigate the employees of any institution and find bad ones. I guarantee you this, more good, dedicated and honest teachers leave every year because of the stress of the job than could ever be fired if they got rid of tenure.

A real hatchet job by Mr. Matus but is was great reading right Richard?

What did it prove and why did you include it on your blog? I was shocked that you would do this.

I am a big fan of this blog but I am disappointed that you felt it necessary to include this garbage.

March 29, 2009 at 10:20 PM
PRO On HCPS said...

I must have missed making my point.

I have 2 other drafts about the article which I didn't post.

At first I was going to make a sarcastic point that if any of those teachers had a blog like Goaders, they would have been dealt with more quickly and severely rather than continue to work for over 20 years.

But when I got to that point of thinking, it dawned on me that perhaps the system came down on Goader is because he doesn't have tenure.

What do you think?

March 29, 2009 at 11:09 PM
Thomas Vaughan said...

Getting rid of bad teachers is not that hard. It takes documentation and proof but then doent you think a teacher should have the beneft of due process.

I am one of those people who actually agree that teachers need to be held to a higher standard but I also believe that the proof required to get rid of one needs to be held to a higher standard as well.

I got news for you. Kids lie. I had three kids write letters accusing me of kicking one of them. Richard, on my father's grave, it didn't happen. If it wasn't for another teacher having witnessed the whole thing, I would have lost my job and perhaps my freedom.

Tenure is certainly abused, no doubt about it but any truly bad teacher can be dismissed, it just takes work. Whats wrong with that?

I believe Goader caved in to them. They won he doesn't post anymore. I don't think tenure had anything to do with it but I do think it had a lot to do with his reaction. I think he should have continued to scream. His screaming is the only reason he's not been terminated. I'm not in his particular shoes and I DO have tenure. You may even be right but I don't think so.

Just my opinion.

March 30, 2009 at 3:46 PM
Goader said...

Richard,

I do indeed have tenure.

March 30, 2009 at 4:25 PM
PRO On HCPS said...

I see I my hypothesis about Goader's lack of tenure was wrong. Let's use the information from the article about the teacher from Hillsborough.

I will make comments (as it goes).


Job: Former high school PE teacher

Years teaching: 1984-2006 (taught for 22 years)

School: Hillsborough High, Tampa

District: Hillsborough

Age: 47

Salary: $53,427

Discipline history:

(after 3 years of teaching)
• Authorities reprimanded him in 1987 for allegedly striking a student; ( not stated as fact - possible lying student granted)


in 1996 for an angry confrontation with an assistant principal; (isolated incident? - no details to go on?)


in 1997 for reportedly lying about his criminal history; (there should not be much lee way here. Either he did or he didn't)



and in 1998 for allegedly telling a student, "I will have your ass put in handcuffs." (who made the accusation? - interesting choice of words for an accusation - 3rd incident 3 years in a row.)



• He also got into hot water in March 1995 for allegedly calling a student a "piece of s---"; (interesting choice of words for someone to make up that lie?)


in October 1995 for his "attitude, temper and interaction with students." (apparently this came from an administrator - possible that administrator fabricated accusation)

• The district suspended him without pay in 2002 after police arrested him on charges of solicitation of prostitution, possession of marijuana and possession of drug paraphernalia. [The charges were not filed or dropped after he entered a misdemeanor intervention program.](possible false arrest?)

Final straw: In May 2006, Schultz tested positive for cocaine, district records show. He had signed an agreement in January 2003 that said he would immediately resign if he tested positive for any controlled or illegal substance. He resigned in July 2006. (Does everyone sign agreements that say they will resign immediately if they test positive for any controlled or illegal substance? If not, how come he had to? Possible falsified testing by the testing agency. Possible conspiracy to frame him?)

State sanctions: In June 2004, the state Education Practices Commission put Schultz on two years' probation. In September 2006, the commission suspended him for a year, fined him $1,000 and put him on probation for another three years.
( Two major league strikes within two years - possible prejudice umpire)
Schultz's explanation: He said in a brief phone interview: "You have paperwork in front of you and know zero about what really happened and what the real story is." He then hung up.

The rest of the story: He is still eligible to teach.

********************

Goader - one incident - out of the classroom.

I realize my two cent's worth of an opinion is as good as the American dollar, but I find it interesting that I can't seem to get away with broad-brush attacks against a system yet try to point out the apparent hypocrisy of the system by supporting an individual within the system.

I also find it interesting how these two sentences got us to here:

"Thanks to The Gradebook for the above link.

It must be a great disadvantage to not have tenure."

**********

Obviously this discussion did not go the way I intended it to. Can anyone compare Goader's path with the above teacher's path?

March 30, 2009 at 5:31 PM
Thomas Vaughan said...

I always assumed that a positive drug test would be grounds for termination.

The difference with the teacher chronicled in the Gradebook story was the he was willing to fight them. Most teachers would quietly leave, even if they did nothing.

Teachers are a pretty timid lot.

March 31, 2009 at 9:01 PM
PRO On HCPS said...

Thomas - Are you saying that a teacher should fight the charges even if the charges are true?

April 1, 2009 at 10:45 AM
Thomas Vaughan said...

Richard, I don't for one second believe that all of the charges against that man were true and I do believe teachers should be given due process.

If you are guilty, you should resign, if not, you fight and make them prove the allegations.

April 1, 2009 at 9:28 PM
PRO On HCPS said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
April 1, 2009 at 9:55 PM
PRO On HCPS said...

I appreciate your comments. Our discussion makes a little more sense to me now. I was having a little difficulty understanding your original response and your staunch defense of accused teachers when there were multiple accusations over a long period of time.

I submit that your expectation that a guilty teacher would simply resign may not be a frequent outcome.

I want to reflect on this for a while. I have tried to compose several different ideas about this, but I don't think I have conceptualized it yet.

April 1, 2009 at 10:17 PM

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