Someone posted the following comment on the above link. I don't know if it's true or not, so if you have facts and sources to refute it, inquiring minds would like to know.
"....almost 200 teachers who have retired and returned to service are being terminated at the end of this school year in Hillsborough County. Some are part of the DROP program; some are not. The School District is releasing them because they are required to pay them at their highest pre-retirement pay grade. The teachers union, Hillsborough County Classroom Teachers Association, will not permit its retired members to renegotiate or accept a lower pay grade in order to save their jobs...."
Apparently, the golden parachute on the DROP program has been cut. I don't know a thing about these kinds of contracts other than I'm pretty sure there is a lot of small print.
We know the school systems are looking for highly qualified teachers. If a teacher has worked long enough to receive their DROP in the bucket, the school system should know by then who is highly qualified or not. It would stand to reason that out of the above number of 200 teachers, most of them better be highly qualified.
The discussion of the accusation that this current move by the County, if indeed that is what it is when divested of any parsed spin, could be considered a bait and switch scam can be held at another point. Again I am purely speculating here, but for the sake of the argument, let's say that some of these teachers would not have retired when they did if they knew their DROP would end in a big splat. Some of these teachers are rumored to be asking to keep their job at a lower pay scale, with entry level being the lowest level I would imagine they could get, but are being told no.
So, the promised DROP in the bucket and the promised golden parachute results in no job.
Who wouldn't want to hire a highly qualified teacher at the same rate as an inexperienced one?
Any one know?
Posts
17 comments:
From a December TBO.com article:
"The district may save more than $4million [they now say $4.5 million] by refusing teachers who want to extend early retirement under the DROP program. So far, there are 186 teachers working under the contract extension. Elia says she would allow extensions only under strict guidelines such as for critical need areas."
The 186 teachers they reference are ONLY those in the DROP program. Not all of the affected teachers actually went through DROP, so that will increase the count. Additionally, any teachers who are still in their initial 5-year period under DROP will be eliminated in future years as their allotted 5-year periods expire, so the impacts are more far-reaching than just the next school year.
I have personally spoken to or corresponded with two School Board members about this situation. They both confirmed that these teachers will definitely be released and replaced with lower paid, less experienced, less skilled teachers. They both also indicated that the District is more than willing to renegotiate lower salaries with the affected teachers but that the teachers union (HCTA) will not permit it.
My child's AGP (Gifted) teacher, who will be losing her job as a result of this policy, confirms that the union will not negotiate this issue. She is more than willing to take a pay reduction, but will not be allowed to even discuss it with the District. As a result, a wonderfully skilled and experienced AGP teacher will be replaced by an inexperienced novice.
There was another online article that I happened upon earlier today but cannot seem to locate again now, wherein Elia stressed more forcefully that DROP extensions will not happen next year and there will be very few exceptions - only in "critical need areas." Since the School District allows out-of-field teachers to take positions for which they are not trained, certified, or capable of teaching just so long as they get that certification within three years, I'm willing to bet that Elia will determine there are NO "critical need areas" for which extensions should be granted. Given that scenario, my child will leave the Gifted Program in three years and head off to middle school, just in time for her new Gifted teacher to finally learn how to do her job. Lovely.
People that are willing to take a pay cut to keep their "so called" professional jobs are a disgrace.
That the district is willing to throw them to the dogs is proof that they don't care about education, that teachers are willing to work for less is proof that they have no respect for themselves.
There is a concerted effort to get rid of experienced teachers, I cant prove it but I feel confident it is true. Anything to save a buck and keep the bloated bureaucracy intact.
You get what you pay for. : )
Disgusting...and teachers wonder why they are not respected....
In the case of my child's teacher, the current economy has had a devastating impact on her family through job losses and failed or failing investments. It's not a matter of self-respect; it's a matter of survival!
Ok, fair enough. What do you think of a school system tat is willing to waste money, then try to recoup it on the back of you child's beloved teacher?
Doesn't it bother you that this teacher has to take a cut in pay? Go to the next board meeting and fight for your kids teacher's dignity.
Kicking valued employees when they are down isnt nice.
Thomas, I'm an Alafia parent. I KNOW how to fight the system. We fought it and we won -- and I was right there in the trenches. It was hard; it was ugly; and it was exhausting. And when I see how much money Elia wasted at Alafia with her assessment teams, principal mentors, "make nice" classes for failed administrators, so-called Focus school expenses -- all in an attempt to save her crony's hide -- it makes my blood boil. The tens of thousands spent on that fiasco could have made up the difference between my child's teacher's pay and that of an inexperienced, low-salaried replacement for a decade or more.
My real issue on this one is as much with the teachers' union as it is with the District though. Sure, I'm mad that the District is using the current budget crunch as an excuse to undo a concession they were probably never happy with making to begin with. Do I think that they could find other ways to trim their spending that wouldn't require cutting loose 200 experienced educators? You bet I do! But on the other side of the equation is a labor union that is so determined to retain a perk requiring retired teachers to be rehired at their highest pre-retirement salary that they are willing to sacrifice all those jobs and livelihoods for it. Why not sit down with the District and work out a sensible resolution -- even if only a temporary one -- that will preserve the jobs of these skilled and experienced educators for their sakes and the sakes of the children of Hillsborough County? The Union is stubbornly clinging to a perk from which there will no longer be teachers employed to benefit.
Now, having said that, am I sure that the District would negotiate in good faith as they claim they would? Given my first-hand experiences with Elia and company, it wouldn't surprise in the least if the answer was no. But for heaven's sake, would it kill either side to try?!
You make a very good point.
You beat me to the punch regarding the suspicion felt by many about their bargaining in good faith especially since these difficult economic times that put us at a bargaining disadvantage.
That said it might be worthwhile to talk about. The problem from the unions perspective is that negotiating away rights is a slippery slope. Frankly I don't think they want to bargain with us. I feel that is is those very experienced and savvy teachers that they want to get rid of.
Alafia parent eh? You guys pulled off a miracle and I heartily commend all of you!!!! Didn't give up and held your ground. You have more guts than most teachers who willingly roll over at the first pointed finger.
Hows the new principal working out?
The new principal is absolutely WONDERFUL! The entire campus has been totally transformed. Teachers are smiling and happy and are being allowed to do innovative and exciting educational events and activities. Accomplishments are lauded; achievements are rewarded; new ideas are welcomed. Parents are communicated with and respected. It's nothing short of a miracle. Most importantly, the students are thriving.
We may very well ultimately pay a price in the way of our "A" rating for the nearly three dozen teachers that Ellyn Smith drove away during her "regime" (those kinds of losses take awhile to show up in test scores), but we will recover quickly under our new leadership.
My thought on the DROP issue is that the two sides should at least sit down and try to prevent the loss of almost 200 teachers. The District claims it's willing but that the Union won't come to the table. (Again, I have my doubts that the District is being completely honest about its ultimate goal.) It just seems to me that some sort of an agreement could be reached to salvage this situation. Why not, in light of current economic conditions, hammer out a temporary agreement for a set time period that would allow teachers to renegotiate their salaries? The Union wouldn't be giving up its pay grade benefit permanently and the District could retain some of the high quality teachers it will otherwise be eliminating.
I also don't know why the District can't look at the DROP teachers on a case-by-case basis and offer extensions to those who are most meritous or most difficult to replace (critical need areas). I get very frustrated with the "all of nothing" scenario that seems to pervade government at all levels these days.
Oops! "All OR nothing..."
Plase listen to me Ms. Alafia parent.....They do NOT want experienced teachers. Experienced employees are the least susceptible to their bullying.
You should know by now that some people are primarily interested in maintaining their positions of privilege.
Blaming the union is BS. The straw man approach. If the CTA came to them on their knees, they would find a way to avoid hiring them. Its not about the money.
The "we don't have the money" explanation is pure fantasy. They certainly had the money to retrain your current principal's predecessor. Money is NO object when it comes to covering up the misdeeds of their cronies.
They are NOT willing to bargain in good faith. Did the bargain with YOU in good faith?
I am very happy to hear that your new principal is doing well. There are many fine administrators working in the system. I worked for three of the best. Men like Tim Ducker, Walt Schafner and Tom Stewart. I was proud to work for them and they were a credit to the district.
"Blaming the union is BS. The straw man approach."
It wasn't a straw man argument, Thomas.
Aside from that, what do you feel the union has done to encourage a positive outcome?
Anon 2
Anon2
I wasn't suggesting that YOU were building the straw man.
You wrote earlier, "The District claims it's willing but that the Union won't come to the table."
That is simply not true. Please tell me who said that.
Sorry for the confusion. I wish you were a teacher. At least you have the courage to stand up to them. Teachers in general age good compliant boys and girls who do as they are told.
In view of the districts unilateral decision the question should be "what has the district done to encourage a positive outcome?"
Frankly I believe the CTA should be more aggressive but then I am generally more aggressive. The CTA is all too willing to be accommodating to the district. They are all on first name basis downtown.
From Goader's blog:
http://es-kay.net/?p=700
Thomas Vaughan on September 13th, 2008 10:13 am
"I would take a pay cut to be treated like a professional."
From this blog, Thomas Vaughan writes:
"People that are willing to take a pay cut to keep their "so called" professional jobs are a disgrace.
... that teachers are willing to work for less is proof that they have no respect for themselves.
You get what you pay for. : )
Disgusting...and teachers wonder why they are not respected...."
Thomas Vaughan, you're a disgrace with no respect for youself, no? I sure your principal got exactly what she paid for.
JD (not the John on Goader's post)
Thomas, I hadn't said that you had suggested I was putting up a straw man argument. I was referring to your comment made to the Alafia parent.
Also, I am Anon 2, and I had written nothing earlier. Read more carefully, please.
Anon 2
Anon 2
"Aside from that, what do you feel the union has done to encourage a positive outcome?'
You wrote that didn't you? I responded.
Got anything useful to add?
Perhaps you should read read more carefully.
Joe D
Disgrace? At least I have the courage to sign my name.
>Joe D
Disgrace? At least I have the courage to sign my name.<
I sign my name using my Blogger account, although it seems pointless as you are unable to read it correctly.
Anon 2 probably has nothing more useful to add because s/he knows that you would misconstrue it anyway. You wrote:
>You [Anon 2] wrote earlier, "The District claims it's willing but that the Union won't come to the table."<
Anon 2 wrote that s/he hadn't written that earlier. Your comprehension skills are in the toilet, Thomas.
What say you about people who are willing to take a pay cut and that you are one of them? As usual, you don't answer questions asked of you. You think you're all aggressive and you insinuate how courageous you are, but you're a pussy who backs down when anyone challenges you and the contradictory rot you spruik.
Your discourse is crude. I have no intention of responding to you after this.
I'm guessing your a misogynist by the crude reference. Do you beat your wife too? Do you have a problem with women? I think you do and I know why.
Still angry about how your mother treated you?
Bye bye baby boy. Get some treatment.
>Your discourse is crude. I have no intention of responding to you after this.<
You never do when someone challenges you, Thomas; I expected nothing less! The question still remains, but I think we both know the answer.
>I'm guessing your [This old chestnut!] a misogynist by the crude reference.<
Gee, you can't read my name properly, yet you can conclude all that woman-hating tripe from something crude you allege I wrote. Your imagination is vivid indeed.
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