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The process: Firing a teacher takes many steps (PDF)
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By the spring of 2007, Roy Sachse's boss had had it.
In a span of 18 months, a co-worker accused Sachse of cussing her out. A confiscated note suggested he wanted to meet a 14-year-old girl behind a Dumpster. A parent said he threatened to pull another girl's pants down. Away from work, police arrested Sachse (pronounced SAX-see) on a charge of stealing a $5.95 sandwich — an arrest he was supposed to tell his boss about within 48 hours, but investigators said he did not.
Even for a guy whose personnel file was thick with warnings and reprimands, this was a lot of drama.
Sachse's boss e-mailed his own bosses: "Mr. Sachse has a long history of incidents involving very poor judgment. I believe it is in his best interest to get a fresh start at a new facility."
In many workplaces, Sachse, now 49 and making $50,120 a year, would have been fired. But Sachse isn't just any worker.
He's a teacher.
Teachers are rarely fired.
In Florida, most teachers have tenure, a status written into state law that gives them special legal protections. Most also have a union willing to wage a legal fight for them. The combination yields a firing process so tedious and time-consuming, districts rarely bother.
When teachers earned workplace protections in the early 20th century, tenure was intended as a shield against overbearing parents and heavy-handed school boards.
Supporters say the need remains. Just imagine, they say, what could happen to tenure-less science teachers in stretches of Florida where evolution is ridiculed.
But critics say tenure's shield is too often extended to teachers who don't deserve it.
The Pinellas school district, with about 7,300 classroom teachers, has fired six tenured teachers in the past four years. Hillsborough, with about 13,000 teachers, has fired 10.
It's true some teachers are forced to resign in lieu of firing. It's true some are rooted out during their first three years on the job, before they get tenure. It goes without saying that bad teachers are the exception.
But they are there. By one national expert's estimates, based on surveys of more than 20,000 administrators, 3 to 5 percent of teachers are poor and 13 to 20 percent are marginal. Personnel records reviewed by the St. Petersburg Times show some of those Pinellas and Hillsborough teachers remain in classrooms year after year, despite persistent complaints.
It's not just their students who suffer. Bad teachers sully the reputation of hard-working teachers and lower their morale. And the inability of public schools to purge them feeds perceptions that schools are resistant to change and tolerant of mediocrity.
"It is what it is," said William Corbett, the principal at Morgan Fitzgerald Middle School in Largo who successfully lobbied for Sachse's transfer. "If (a teacher) does something bad, the first response isn't to fire them," continued Corbett, who once owned a construction company. "It's not an option."
Bad teachers drag a mess of other issues into plain view.
How do you tell the good from the bad? How do you fix a teacher evaluation process many call useless? How do you stop a musical-chairs transfer system that shuffles bad teachers from school to school? All those issues are being scrutinized like never before. And from all points on the political spectrum.
Tallahassee lawmakers are debating a bill backed by former Gov. Jeb Bush, a Republican, that would end tenure for new teachers hired after July 2009. In Washington, D.C., chancellor Michelle Rhee, a Democrat, made the cover of Time magazine in December because of her no-holds-barred campaign to boot bad teachers.
Even President Barack Obama is talking about it.
"It is time to start rewarding good teachers," he said in a speech this month, "and stop making excuses for bad ones."
• • •
In 22 years in Pinellas schools, Sachse has been in hot water at least 20 times.
At two schools. Under several principals.
Again and again, the PE teacher has been written up for the same issues: Poor judgment. Unprofessional behavior. Failure to follow rules.
There's no single incident in Sachse's file so outrageous, it invites universal condemnation. There is no Debra Lafave moment. Instead, the picture that emerges is of an employee who skirts the edge.
There is gray here, too.
On seven occasions, administrators deemed complaints against Sachse unsubstantiated, including in 2006 when a student created an edgy MySpace page about Sachse without his knowledge.
But on two occasions, the claims were partially substantiated. On 11 others, Sachse was sanctioned.
At Plumb Elementary in Clearwater, he was reprimanded for calling in sick when the principal determined he was at a Chicago Bulls game. Less than a year later, he was written up for tying up a student with her own sweatshirt.
A similar story unfolded at Morgan Fitzgerald: Among other things, Sachse was reprimanded for trying to discipline unruly students by making them drag themselves across the floor with their hands. The "seal walk" one student called it.
Over and over, school officials expressed frustration with Sachse. In 1997, after a particularly harsh evaluation, former superintendent Howard Hinesley threatened to fire him. But the toughest punishment the district has imposed is a one-day suspension — in 2007.
"When do we say enough is enough? That's a difficult call," said Valerie Brimm, an administrator in Pinellas's Office of Professional Standards, which investigates teacher misconduct.
Has Sachse done enough? "Not for termination," Brimm said.
Sachse hails from the Chicago area and earned a bachelor's degree in physical education from Eastern Illinois University. He was a concrete finisher when he applied to be a Pinellas teacher. On a 1985 job application he wrote: "As I have always enjoyed athletics and children, the teaching profession offers me the opportunity to enjoy both."
Pinellas records show Sachse married in 1995 and divorced three years later. They also show he pled guilty and paid a $30 fine in 1999 for urinating in public.
After 10 years at Morgan Fitzgerald, the district put Sachse at John Hopkins Middle in St. Petersburg in 2007. He transferred to Oak Grove Middle in 2008, where he remains today.
Sachse declined to comment for this story and did not respond to phone calls and emails.
In a December interview before his death, Jade Moore, the late Pinellas union chief, said Sachse visited union headquarters often in early 2008, seeking help to leave John Hopkins.
"The principal there hated him," Moore said.
• • •
The note said, "Can you meet me by the dumpster tonight? From: Coach."
According to district records, Sachse, then at Morgan Fitzgerald, wrote it in December 2006 and gave it to two female students to give to a third female student. Another teacher saw it and told administrators.
The note was an inside joke gone bad, Sachse said. Rumor had it that two students, a girl and a boy, were kissing behind a Dumpster at school. Sachse knew them, so he came up with the idea of sending the note to the girl.
A Pinellas sheriff's detective concluded Sachse had no intention of meeting the student and nothing criminal was going on.
"I was just trying to be funny," Sachse told the detective.
But district officials weren't laughing. It wasn't the first time Sachse had been tied to inappropriate language and behavior around students.
• In October 2003, the school resource officer at Morgan Fitzgerald investigated a parent complaint that Sachse watched a girl while she was undressing in the locker room. Sasche told the officer he went into the girl's locker room, but only to get equipment. He said he wouldn't go in there again.
• In September 2005, another parent complained Sachse had threatened to pull her daughter's pants down while the girl was climbing on the bleachers. The teacher told investigators he did not make such a comment, but other girls backed their classmate.
Sachse's personnel file is checkered with similar complaints, including a girl who told investigators that when she asked Sachse what he got her for Valentine's Day, he said "13 inches."
In some cases, the allegations were deemed unsubstantiated. In some, the records don't say. In still others, officials suspected kids were lying.
Still, a district investigator referred to Sachse's reputation in a stern warning letter that followed the bleacher incident.
"I explained that the comment you made over a year ago (13 inches) has become an 'urban legend,' " wrote James T. Lott, in the district's Office of Professional Standards. "Students are talking about it and spinning it as a sexual connotation. Also girls at the school are referring to you as the 'perv.' "
Lott warned, "Never say anything to a student that is sarcastic or could be misconstrued."
In a letter, Sachse said the sanction was unwarranted.
"These types of accusations and rumors can quickly lead to the termination of a teacher's career," he wrote. "It is disappointing to me that allegations with no supporting evidence are given this much weight."
Like many districts, Pinellas follows a "progressive discipline" policy that gives teachers multiple chances, except in the most egregious cases, to fix problems,
After the Dumpster note, the district reprimanded Sachse. His discipline tally up to that point: three reprimands, three warning letters and at least four other write-ups.
• • •
There is no easy way to find out which teachers get in trouble a lot.
Their personnel files are public record, but they're not posted on the Web, and it can easily cost more than $100 to redact and copy a few files.
Inevitably, the ones that do surface raise a bigger question: If it's so hard to fire a teacher whose file is spilling over with reprimands, just throw in the thorny question of measuring teacher quality and think how tough it is to fire one who is quietly incompetent.
Pinellas found out this month.
In a rare decision, a state administrative law judge ruled that Curtis Brown, a former math teacher at John Hopkins Middle, was incompetent and insubordinate and should be fired. Among other things, district officials said he didn't prepare adequate lesson plans or teach assigned subject matter. He also reportedly fell asleep in class.
For months, administrators met with Brown frequently, offered him remedies and kept meticulous notes. For months, district legal staff gathered evidence, deposed witnesses and prepared legal documents.
On March 10 — nearly three years after a scathing evaluation — the Pinellas School Board finally fired him.
Moore, the late Pinellas union chief, defended the firing process. "Yeah it takes a long time to get rid of (a teacher). And it should," he said. "Don't think of teachers as factory line workers. It's a profession."
• • •
Two months after the Dumpster note, Sachse was in trouble again. This time, for reportedly hurling "f------ b----" at a co-worker.
That, and his failure to report the sandwich arrest from May 2006, led the School Board to punish him with a one-day suspension without pay. (The theft charges were dropped after Sachse completed a pretrial intervention program.)
It's unclear if Sachse has had any problems since. It's also unclear if his past two principals knew of his misconduct history.
Neither Maureen Thornton, the former John Hopkins principal, nor Dawn Coffin, the Oak Grove principal, returned calls for comment. Pinellas district spokeswoman Andrea Zahn said Thornton did not object to Sachse's placement. She said Coffin hired him because she needed a PE teacher with training to work with special education students — and Sachse has it.
Sachse talked to the Times last June after he entered an agreement with the state Education Practices Commission to be placed on two years' probation. The state recommended the penalty after investigating the Dumpster note, the alleged bleacher comment and the sandwich incident.
He said he was on medication and "just spaced out" with the sandwich.
He said the uproar over the Dumpster note was "baloney."
He said the girl who accused him of threatening to pull her pants down misheard him.
"I'm a goofball. I play with the kids a lot. That's the way I am," he said then.
Sachse told the Times he agreed to the state sanction so he could just move on.
"I only have seven years left (before retirement)," he said. "Then I'm done."
Times researcher Caryn Baird contributed to this report. Ron Matus can be reached at matus@sptimes.com or (727) 893-8873.
Other teachers with histories of misconduct
Thomas R. Schultz
Job: Former high school PE teacher
Years teaching: 1984-2006
School: Hillsborough High, Tampa
District: Hillsborough
Age: 47
Salary: $53,427
Discipline history:
• Authorities reprimanded him in 1987 for allegedly striking a student; in 1996 for an angry confrontation with an assistant principal; in 1997 for reportedly lying about his criminal history; and in 1998 for allegedly telling a student, "I will have your ass put in handcuffs."
• He also got into hot water in March 1995 for allegedly calling a student a "piece of s---"; in October 1995 for his "attitude, temper and interaction with students."
• The district suspended him without pay in 2002 after police arrested him on charges of solicitation of prostitution, possession of marijuana and possession of drug paraphernalia. (The charges were not filed or dropped after he entered a misdemeanor intervention program.)
Final straw: In May 2006, Schultz tested positive for cocaine, district records show. He had signed an agreement in January 2003 that said he would immediately resign if he tested positive for any controlled or illegal substance. He resigned in July 2006.
State sanctions: In June 2004, the state Education Practices Commission put Schultz on two years' probation. In September 2006, the commission suspended him for a year, fined him $1,000 and put him on probation for another three years.
Schultz's explanation: He said in a brief phone interview: "You have paperwork in front of you and know zero about what really happened and what the real story is." He then hung up.
The rest of the story: He is still eligible to teach.
Shirley P. Johnson
Job: Former kindergarten teacher
Years teaching: 1987-2006
School: Walsingham Elementary, Largo
District: Pinellas
Age: 68
Salary: $54,400 at retirement
Discipline history:
• District records show Johnson was written up at least 13 times, seven of them for "excessive force" or battery on a student (in 1989, 1994, 1997, 2000, 2002 and twice in 2005).
• In the February 1994 incident, students said she slammed a bathroom door on the hand of a student — an incident that reportedly severed a tendon in the student's hand. Johnson said another student shut the door. District records don't show any finding of fault.
The final straw: In August 2005, Johnson reportedly became angry when her students had to wait in line behind fifth-graders in the cafeteria. She reportedly pushed students into each other and shoved their lunch trays down the line. The school board suspended her for three days without pay, mandated an anger management class and required her to retire at the end of the school year.
State sanction: The Education Practices Commission, in October 2007, suspended Johnson's teaching certificate for one year.
Johnson's explanation: She said in a phone interview that the cafeteria allegations are "a bunch of crap" and that she merely tapped some shoulders and told the fifth-graders to hurry. She said kids often lie and administrators often take the parents' side, whether it's justified or not. "This happens more often than you know," she said. "And this is why teachers leave teaching."
The rest of the story: Johnson receives a $1,337 monthly pension.
Sharion Thurman
Job: High school English teacher
Years teaching: 1986-present
School: Gibbs High
District: Pinellas
Age: 58
Salary: $61,050
Discipline history:
• Authorities reprimanded her in 1993 and 1997 for poor judgment; in 1998 and 1999 for issues with her lesson plans; again in 1999 for not following school policy regarding grades; and in 2005 for not following board policy regarding controversial material.
• The School Board suspended her for three days without pay in 1987 for inappropriate class management.
• It suspended her for 25 days without pay in 2006 for reportedly stuffing a ballot box so her niece could be elected home?coming queen. State records say she admitted her misconduct to school officials.
State sanction: In January, the Education Practices Commission put Thurman on two years' probation for the ballot-box allegation and ordered her to take a college-level course in ethics.
Thurman's explanation: "I'm a little controversial," she said in a phone interview, with a laugh. "I don't always see eye to eye with those who have authority." She would not address specific allegations but said of her teaching skill, "I am qualified. I am experienced."
The rest of the story, Part 1: In a February 1999 letter to an administrator in the Office of Professional Standards, Thurman wrote, in response to the possibility of disciplinary action against her, "Who do you white people think you are, that, because other people — parents, administrators, and so on — tell you such and such is, you go on their word without talking to the principal character — me, or others like me? … Because I am African-American, and because in no uncertain way I am not your pliable, amenable, acceptable Negro, then you look for ways to, in the words of the teacher masses, 'get me.' "
The rest of the story, Part 2: Gibbs principal Antelia Campbell told state investigators Thurman should have been recommended for firing after the ballot-box incident: "If she would do this with homecoming votes, I can't even begin to imagine the creative grading that is taking place in her classroom … It is difficult for students to learn from someone who is so untrustworthy and dishonest."
[Last modified: Apr 03, 2009 03:03 PM]
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Tina from Tarpon SpringsApr 3rd, 2009 10:40 PM
Where are the parents whose children are affected by these teachers? Too many aprents are concerned with the grades kids earn. This situation ought to wake a few parents up, or at least those who know what truly matters.
insider from clwApr 1st, 2009 5:38 PM
I've seen teachers get in trouble for a variety of reasons. A few cases the infractions were minor yet the consequences were nasty. Other teachers who did profoundly bad things were protected. It depends on the adminstrator in charge. No Consistency.
teacher from temple terraceApr 1st, 2009 11:07 AM
I'm a hills county teacher - i have known some horrible teachers who have done very inappropriate things and did not get fired. It is so frustrating to the rest of us who work hard every day - and it gives us a bad rep as well. Tenure needs change.
Question from St. PeteApr 1st, 2009 8:37 AM
How many non-tenured, non-union teachers have been fired in the past four years?
Inkslinger from PinellasMar 31st, 2009 9:08 PM
Now the other half of the story!How about if we read the horror stories about administrators & other school board employees.Hmmm? Seems only equitable.Or stories about other governmental employees.One rotten apple does not spoil the whole bunch.
Billy G from ClearwaterMar 31st, 2009 8:33 PM
Nothing is going to change because the teachers union defends the lousy teachers. Teachers union is just like the UAW or the Teamsters corrupt and protects the terrible US worker. Teachers=Overpaid Union Babysitters. My 3 Kids go to private school
Concerned from PinellasMar 31st, 2009 6:04 PM
For all you teachers out there who have been lucky, any teacher can be let go on June 30th by administration just saying their services are no longer needed. All that has to be done is the paperwork. As a tenured teacher where a school is closing.
Susan from St. PeteMar 31st, 2009 3:42 PM
I am a teacher and tenure has never been important to me. I am a strong, hard working teacher and well respected by colleagues. In practice, tenure seems to protect bad teachers more than anything else. Just what I've seen form inside the classroom.
Marie from Tarpon SpringsMar 31st, 2009 3:09 PM
Can we fire the bad parents who raise hellians who come to school with a chip on their should looking to lie about the teacher who gives them any discipline that they're lacking from home? That's their new weapon.. lying and playing the victim.
Honor from CountrysideMar 31st, 2009 2:27 PM
Artelia did right in firing this Thurman. There are no "byes" in setting standards. This woman was the end.
Looking for a job from Saint PetersburgMar 31st, 2009 12:42 PM
Hard to think that what I just read was true and I have a degree with no completed certification nor job. PCSB teachers are just like the students....They get too many chances!
get a clue from pinellasMar 31st, 2009 11:40 AM
It has been shown that teachers can be fired for incompetence. It takes an admin to do the paper work, but federal,state,& district expectations stop the best admin from doing whats right. The admin who got the teacher fired needs to show others how.
Phil from TampaMar 31st, 2009 9:15 AM
Tenure?...Please...thats is a problem not only with teachers, but at the University level, and most Gov. agencies, Local, State, and federal. End the practice NOW!!
Still Frustrated from TampaMar 31st, 2009 9:04 AM
Administrators can make anyone sound bad on paper. Admin can get rid of good teachers whenever they want if we aren't protected. Don't like the fact that the teacher makes waves by standing up for a kid or calls the union when contract is broken.
Frustrated from TampaMar 31st, 2009 9:01 AM
When you don't show up at work on time, take multiple days off, and don't do anything but text and play games at work what happens? You get fired! How do you fire a 12 yr old with the same behaviors? Yet somehow it's the teachers fault!
Scott from HolidayMar 31st, 2009 8:14 AM
Lazy administrators lead to this problem. These people can be weeded out in the first three years of their careers if principals will get off their butts.
veteran teacher from FloridaMar 31st, 2009 6:23 AM
Why aren't administrators held more accountable? They are on annual contract and have no protection at all. There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for having incompetent administrators. They are more expensive than we are.
Public Ed from FLMar 30th, 2009 10:03 PM
How about a bil firing the "Bad Administrators" that hire the "Bad Teachers". School Districts already have what they need to get rid of "Bad Teachers". This bill is brought to you by Jeb Bush and Patricia Levesque to dismantle Public Schools!
Christy from ClearwaterMar 30th, 2009 9:39 PM
omg. He was my coach, and he would always call my friend keyanna all these names and ask her questions. Everyone always says he's a perv and stuff, but i would never have thought hes done all this stuff =/
Thom from OregonMar 30th, 2009 5:15 PM
Tenure was put in place beginning in the early 1900s to protect teachers from teaching unpopular subjects, like science and labor rights. It is abused by some, just like all good things are, but teachers still need protecting, now as much as ever.
Tina from Tarpon SpringsApr 3rd, 2009 10:40 PM
Where are the parents whose children are affected by these teachers? Too many aprents are concerned with the grades kids earn. This situation ought to wake a few parents up, or at least those who know what truly matters.
insider from clwApr 1st, 2009 5:38 PM
I've seen teachers get in trouble for a variety of reasons. A few cases the infractions were minor yet the consequences were nasty. Other teachers who did profoundly bad things were protected. It depends on the adminstrator in charge. No Consistency.
teacher from temple terraceApr 1st, 2009 11:07 AM
I'm a hills county teacher - i have known some horrible teachers who have done very inappropriate things and did not get fired. It is so frustrating to the rest of us who work hard every day - and it gives us a bad rep as well. Tenure needs change.
Question from St. PeteApr 1st, 2009 8:37 AM
How many non-tenured, non-union teachers have been fired in the past four years?
Inkslinger from PinellasMar 31st, 2009 9:08 PM
Now the other half of the story!How about if we read the horror stories about administrators & other school board employees.Hmmm? Seems only equitable.Or stories about other governmental employees.One rotten apple does not spoil the whole bunch.
Billy G from ClearwaterMar 31st, 2009 8:33 PM
Nothing is going to change because the teachers union defends the lousy teachers. Teachers union is just like the UAW or the Teamsters corrupt and protects the terrible US worker. Teachers=Overpaid Union Babysitters. My 3 Kids go to private school
Concerned from PinellasMar 31st, 2009 6:04 PM
For all you teachers out there who have been lucky, any teacher can be let go on June 30th by administration just saying their services are no longer needed. All that has to be done is the paperwork. As a tenured teacher where a school is closing.
Susan from St. PeteMar 31st, 2009 3:42 PM
I am a teacher and tenure has never been important to me. I am a strong, hard working teacher and well respected by colleagues. In practice, tenure seems to protect bad teachers more than anything else. Just what I've seen form inside the classroom.
Marie from Tarpon SpringsMar 31st, 2009 3:09 PM
Can we fire the bad parents who raise hellians who come to school with a chip on their should looking to lie about the teacher who gives them any discipline that they're lacking from home? That's their new weapon.. lying and playing the victim.
Honor from CountrysideMar 31st, 2009 2:27 PM
Artelia did right in firing this Thurman. There are no "byes" in setting standards. This woman was the end.
Looking for a job from Saint PetersburgMar 31st, 2009 12:42 PM
Hard to think that what I just read was true and I have a degree with no completed certification nor job. PCSB teachers are just like the students....They get too many chances!
get a clue from pinellasMar 31st, 2009 11:40 AM
It has been shown that teachers can be fired for incompetence. It takes an admin to do the paper work, but federal,state,& district expectations stop the best admin from doing whats right. The admin who got the teacher fired needs to show others how.
Phil from TampaMar 31st, 2009 9:15 AM
Tenure?...Please...thats is a problem not only with teachers, but at the University level, and most Gov. agencies, Local, State, and federal. End the practice NOW!!
Still Frustrated from TampaMar 31st, 2009 9:04 AM
Administrators can make anyone sound bad on paper. Admin can get rid of good teachers whenever they want if we aren't protected. Don't like the fact that the teacher makes waves by standing up for a kid or calls the union when contract is broken.
Frustrated from TampaMar 31st, 2009 9:01 AM
When you don't show up at work on time, take multiple days off, and don't do anything but text and play games at work what happens? You get fired! How do you fire a 12 yr old with the same behaviors? Yet somehow it's the teachers fault!
Scott from HolidayMar 31st, 2009 8:14 AM
Lazy administrators lead to this problem. These people can be weeded out in the first three years of their careers if principals will get off their butts.
veteran teacher from FloridaMar 31st, 2009 6:23 AM
Why aren't administrators held more accountable? They are on annual contract and have no protection at all. There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for having incompetent administrators. They are more expensive than we are.
Public Ed from FLMar 30th, 2009 10:03 PM
How about a bil firing the "Bad Administrators" that hire the "Bad Teachers". School Districts already have what they need to get rid of "Bad Teachers". This bill is brought to you by Jeb Bush and Patricia Levesque to dismantle Public Schools!
Christy from ClearwaterMar 30th, 2009 9:39 PM
omg. He was my coach, and he would always call my friend keyanna all these names and ask her questions. Everyone always says he's a perv and stuff, but i would never have thought hes done all this stuff =/
Thom from OregonMar 30th, 2009 5:15 PM
Tenure was put in place beginning in the early 1900s to protect teachers from teaching unpopular subjects, like science and labor rights. It is abused by some, just like all good things are, but teachers still need protecting, now as much as ever.
pinellas teacher from st peteMar 30th, 2009 5:07 PM
Kids Lie! I'm not backing this man, but I have been a victim of students' lies. Kids might not be book smart these days, but they know how things can work in their favor (right or wrong, legally or illegally.)
Exhausted from from far far awayMar 30th, 2009 4:46 PM
Performance pay and tougher standards are definitely the way to go. We definetly shouldn't empower our highly qualified educators or make parents and students accountable for their FREE education! Since when did free mean equal or fair?
Terminator Too from St. PeteMar 30th, 2009 4:25 PM
"American in Dade" and other clueless posters need to "wake up and smell the coffee!" Good teachers have everything to fear, because they are more concerned with acutally teaching, rather than trying to impress the miscreants at "The Taj!"
tyler from clearwaterMar 30th, 2009 3:47 PM
he was my choach and i allways thought something was up but never knew it was this! i think he should really be fired now i feel very uncomftorable going to gym now :(
Cookie from hereMar 30th, 2009 1:02 PM
Imagine the principals who do the evaluations. Sometimes making a teacher a scapegoat is the easiest thing.
Jasper from CountrysideMar 30th, 2009 12:23 PM
It is embarrassing for him and the others. Does Valerie Brimm earn that humongous salary? Open the books. Before any other steps are taken.
ss from ClearwaterMar 30th, 2009 12:02 PM
As the parent of a female student in his class, how can I feel comfortable sending my daughter into his PE class everyday? He should not be allowed to continue to teach. Our children deserve better roll models than this.
Derrick from TampaMar 30th, 2009 11:47 AM
With today's future scum(also known as our children), I can see why some of these teachers go off. Looking at today's youth, I have little hope for a bright future.
about burned out from PinellasMar 30th, 2009 11:23 AM
In Penniless aka Pinellas Cnty., it's been bad for years. Check out our new Superintendent's background. There are MANY more good teachers than bad ones. Bad ones get the publicity! I work 14-16 hr. days for my class.I'm tired! And now a 10% pay cut!
college prof from st. peteMar 30th, 2009 11:22 AM
The neocons want to de-professionalize teaching and turn it into corporate training. This article has that agenda. If you want to see waste and incompetancy - look at public school administrators and their layers of staff that do nothing to educate.
Molly from former KissimmeeMar 30th, 2009 10:34 AM
They are getting rid of good teachers because they make a certain amount of money - actually lots of money to recruit out of state. So you pick up and move there with a job and after a year, Sorry. You are stuck. Unions need more power.
Why? from Tampabay,FLMar 30th, 2009 10:32 AM
They are some GREAT teachers in Fla. Sachshe resembles a predator. Maybe, They should transfer him to Taj Mahal. He does not need to be around kids. Sadly,there are several teachers like him in PCS.
James from TampaMar 30th, 2009 10:03 AM
The real problem in Hillsborough County starts at the board level. Look at how many school admins are somehow related to board members. Those admins only taught for three years and bought their Nova degree. They were never really teachers themselves.
The American from Dade CityMar 30th, 2009 9:01 AM
First. There are a lot of outstanding teachers in Florida. Second. Unions and tenure need to go so that teachers like Sachse will get kicked out of the system. Third. Good and hardworking teachers have nothing to fear if they are doing their jobs.
gg from hereMar 30th, 2009 8:58 AM
Obviously, he needs to have BEEN gone! If all of this has come out, how much hasn't??? A teacher needs to be professional with the students, not be their buddies. What more does he have to do? Ruin a child's life? Get him out!
Cowbert from CowtownMar 30th, 2009 8:37 AM
removing Tenure is not the answer. removing bad teachers is.
A mom from HudsonMar 30th, 2009 1:45 AM
So, when my kid said there teacher cursed or pushed them or did not act like they should I believed them all the time. My kids are adults now, I never put a teacher b4 my child. School board always took teachers side, so a parent can't complain
Fred from MissouriMar 30th, 2009 1:00 AM
Bill O'Lielly "journalism" at it's finest. You should change the paper's name to to Wingnut News".
eric from south bend, inMar 29th, 2009 11:15 PM
Wow....could you imagine if every company had a tenured program?
RAN from downtownMar 29th, 2009 10:59 PM
It is sad that these teachers have to be exposed this way in the media. Some of the things they allegedly did are trival and not worth printing. What does urinating in public have to do with teaching school? A note by the dumspter? That's nitpicking
mel from illinoisMar 29th, 2009 10:23 PM
Responsible administrators are the key; in thirty-four years of teaching, I had one principal who came into my classroom two or three times a week - guess what: he knew what was happening.
Anon I Mouse from Tampa BayMar 29th, 2009 10:18 PM
I want to thank the Times for finally telling the truth about this situation.As a teacher in this area,I will tell you that it frustrates me to see how poor teachers are retained year after year.I have to make up for their mistakes with the kids.
Don't judge unless you know from HolidayMar 29th, 2009 10:12 PM
Teachers don't give low grades for 2 reasons: Parent complaints when their perfect wasn't the cause of the low grade, they shouldn't have to study at home. Teachers are told that they should not give below a 50 because it's too hard to come back from
Mel from GibsontonMar 29th, 2009 10:11 PM
People are moving away from here. Time to can the freeloaders and losers.
jonh from clearwater, floridaMar 29th, 2009 10:00 PM
the bad apert is that i go to oak grove and he was one of my teachers!
Rachel from Land O LakesMar 29th, 2009 9:58 PM
Tenure must stay. I'm a parent and know how cruel other parents can be to good teachers. They don't deserve it. The bad ones need to go.
pops from 33709Mar 29th, 2009 9:42 PM
over paid and under worked or they would have no time for this CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR. FIRE THEM ON THE SPOT. WHO ELSE IN THIS COUNTRY GETS TENURE IN 3 YEARS. NO-ONE
Jen from MichiganMar 29th, 2009 9:24 PM
Hwo to judge a bad teacher: How about when they "grade on a curve"? Sorry, 17% is NOT an "A". Or when the teacher spends 10 minutes "teaching" and the rest of the time reading the comics, talking sports (the class is "History:). I wanted an education
Felix from Albion, MIMar 29th, 2009 9:23 PM
Teachers are underpaid, never respected and do a thankless job. They deal with lies and crap all the time from everyone. The job has become very stressful in recent years. 50 years old should be manditory retirement for teachers. Too many lies.
Mrs. Apple from New Port RicheyMar 29th, 2009 9:18 PM
Fed up: When can we fire the parents who do not support the kids? The parents who scream when we grade accurately? The parent who does the homework? The parent who wants an 'A' because he 'worked so hard' not because it's good? We can only do so much
Disgusted reader from St. PetersburgMar 29th, 2009 9:14 PM
Why on earth would you write such an article? What do you gain from it? Trashing these people in public? There is a process schools follow, don't like it? Change it. Some of this is unsubstantiated. Print what's proven. Can we look into YOUR record?
concerned citizen from TampaMar 29th, 2009 9:09 PM
such a shame with teachers these days, unimaginable to most but there are certain groups or societies if you will, that are forming up and are putting bullet's in the problems of sexual predators more specifically focused on the school system, crazy!
fed up from pascoMar 29th, 2009 9:00 PM
There needs to be more accountability at all levels. Failing kids...fire the teacher. Failing school...fire the principal.
Hardworking honest Hernando teacher from brooksvilleMar 29th, 2009 8:54 PM
I think we've had enough publicity showing the bad side of a FEW teachers. Can we PLEASE show the correct and good side of the MAJORITY of teachers? We work very hard, money aside, I would just like to see the disrespect & distain decrease a little.
Tired of being trashed from spring hillMar 29th, 2009 8:32 PM
And how do you judge a bad teacher? Complaints from parents because you are too hard on Suzi? The admin when you are not part of the clique? Test scores when students don't try? We can't give zeros anymore if they do nothing. How do you judge this?
katie from clearwaterMar 29th, 2009 8:15 PM
coach sachse was one of my teachers and he is always kidding around he did creep me out sometimes but im a student at oak grove and was apart of the gym class that he taught but im a 8th grader this is so shocking! aahhhhhh :D
Hard to believe, but true! from St. PetersburgMar 29th, 2009 6:36 PM
As sad and unbelieveable as the story is, all that has been said is true. I once taught with Mr. Sache at Fitzgerald Middle School and his behavior was unacceptable and downright disturbing.
carissa from clearwaterMar 29th, 2009 6:06 PM
well coach sachse is my gym coach and he is always like talking to girls and its kinda creepy i think they should fire him.
John from Port RicheyMar 29th, 2009 6:02 PM
And it should be much easier to take kids away from lousy parents or fire school board members who don't show up to meetings
JH from ClearwaterMar 29th, 2009 5:03 PM
If schools were a going concern and were losing money based on these bad employees then maybe the admin's would find a way to let them go. OTOH if a parent had a voucher they could select where to spend that money. Accountability scares the unions.
CTA Member from Hillsborough CountyMar 29th, 2009 4:55 PM
Unfortunately, the evaluation process can be very subjective for many. Rock the boat, speak out, and a teacher can be "punished" via their evaluation. If the administrator doesn't like you, there is a chance it will speak volumes in their evaluation.
JJ from DunedinMar 29th, 2009 4:46 PM
Did anyone else find this article about 1000 words too long? Talk about redundent-
Bobbie from ClearwaterMar 29th, 2009 4:46 PM
We have very FEW bad teachers!We are human & use poor judgement every so often.I was "accused" by a 'known' unstable parent.I am thankful for tenure.I wasn't a union member,but now am.My attny was great.Teachers,not incl.myself,endorsed Obama! Shame!
Only one side from St PeteMar 29th, 2009 4:34 PM
Has Sachse done anything right? If I had the file in front of me Mr. Sachse has had some good reviews. Matus-did you ever think he hasn't been fired because he is a good teacher with poor judgement? Or did the good not fit your hatchet job. Weak!
No Name from ClearwaterMar 29th, 2009 3:44 PM
Why doesn't the principal fire him. I am very concerned! Why would you hire a previous jail bird!
No name from ClearwaterMar 29th, 2009 3:41 PM
I've had him for a gym coach this year! And he is very different lets just say that! i've had more and more people say that he has said or done something to them! lets get rid of him now!!!!
Mark from St. PeteMar 29th, 2009 3:37 PM
I'm not sure why anyone is surprised. In a company with this many employees, there are plenty of crappy slackers. And after 50 years of marginalizing teaching (in opinions, salaries, etc.), why shouldn't the profession collect such deadbeats?
Teacher from ClearwaterMar 29th, 2009 3:02 PM
Teachers get used a climate where administrators are honored - teachers are to simply do what they are told. Look at management to find A problem - Does this reporter believe these reports by administrators who do not invite diverse opinions?
Sally from Palm HarborMar 29th, 2009 2:54 PM
Who cares? You all voted for the referendum...
WJ from TampaMar 29th, 2009 2:09 PM
Ray's correct in his statement. The chain of command documents the teachers behavior or inability to perform. The administration and department heads are at fault. Thats why its hard to fire a teacher. The inability of higher powers to do their job
Rachel from Land O LakesMar 29th, 2009 2:08 PM
I had a high school named Pat Connolly. Although brilliant, he was very arrogant. If memory serves me right, his tenure status saved his job, more than once, for his words and behavior towards students.
WJ from TampaMar 29th, 2009 1:34 PM
Schultz was a great teacher, despite his record. Every teacher has a personality (senceofhumor) that may not be the protocol but does that make them incapable. The demeanors are what we all remember from educators, does that suggest all were usurped.
Terminator too from St. PetersburgMar 29th, 2009 1:32 PM
Teach, what are you talking about "low salaries until the last few years?" I'm a teacher with a Master's Degree and five years experience; and I could probably qualify for food stamps!
Terminator too from St. PetersburgMar 29th, 2009 1:28 PM
Surprise, surprise! Another flawless article from the St. Pete Times designed to create furor against the overpaid, lazy teachers; while, simultaneously, enhancing the reputations of the poor, over-worked Administrators. Sweet!
Bill from OrlandoMar 29th, 2009 12:55 PM
There are also just as many incompetent Principals out there , worked for several, they are not fired or in the paper, they are given jobs downtown.
Rob from Overland ParkMar 29th, 2009 12:55 PM
"3 to 5 percent of teachers are poor and 13 to 20 percent are marginal." After all those studies, the teachers fall directly onto the Bell curve. I'll wager that, despite all the administration's efforts, 50% of their students are below average.
Teacher from HernandoMar 29th, 2009 12:50 PM
Oh yea, great idea Jeb. "Calling all teachers come to florida and teach we have the lowest wages an no tenure, and nice weather." Pay for performance is a joke its Jebs way of keeping his beloved fcat the holy grail of florida education.
Carl from seminoleMar 29th, 2009 12:43 PM
Tenure and unions are bad combinations. Not being able to fire an incompetent teacher is disgusing. Unions don't care, they re jusst interesst in money. This should also go for colleges.
Karl from madeira beachMar 29th, 2009 12:43 PM
This is what happens when big government and big labor from far, far away determines the rules and regulations for local issues. Without these mobsters watching his back, this guy would have been fired years ago.
redisni from new tampaMar 29th, 2009 12:21 PM
Who monitors lousy school administrators? Where is the dept head feedback? Improve tenure; schools should move recurrent problem teachers to the pool @ entry level pay replace them with a sub & reassign them to admin tasks while investigation goes on
Susan from St. PeteMar 29th, 2009 11:48 AM
Actually teachers are held to a much higher standard than most people and can be fired immediately for what others would not even be spoken to about (ie DUI) Non job related behavior can result in dire consequences. In what other job does that happen
Cid from OrlandoMar 29th, 2009 11:36 AM
Wonder what a "GumShoe" , would say about you , Mr. Matus ?
Debi White from SarasotaMar 29th, 2009 11:34 AM
Good & bad exist in every profession. As Pat said,"we want the bad apples gone". Administration needs to stop moving the problems, stay on top of them, and aid in their removal.
Ken from PascoMar 29th, 2009 11:30 AM
Ok , Ron do an article on the "Cherry Tree" that you chopped down ! Fessup !
Sam from TampaMar 29th, 2009 11:22 AM
Ok , now do a piece on incompentent publishers , reporters ,etc .. They need some exposure also !
Fran from TampaMar 29th, 2009 11:17 AM
Guess you did not have any excellent teachers while in school ? Where did you acquire your skills , from ? Guess you were homeschooled ? Every professional is the result of teachers , backup !
Amp from St. Pete.Mar 29th, 2009 11:11 AM
Agree with Bob ; what is the standard at the Poyter Institute ? The print media is full of incompetents , why do you suspose you are in such dire straits and about to go out of business ? Do an article on newspapers in landfills and there impact !
Cielia from LargoMar 29th, 2009 10:47 AM
What angers me is the way poor teachers reflect on those of us that are excellent teacchers and consistently go above & beyond. Articles like this are demoralizing at best. Get read of these sub-par teachers so the rest of us can do our jobs.
Teacher from BrooksvilleMar 29th, 2009 10:46 AM
The behavior of these teachers, if true, is outrageous. All teachers with a poor work ethic are a burden for dedicated teachers. We have to pick up the slack! Changing their placement is how other professions in this country resolve problems...
Jeff from St. PetersburgMar 29th, 2009 10:45 AM
This is further proof that the unions ARE the problem! They've already destroyed the American Auto Industry, when will you ppl learn? The only good thing about a union is the grievance process, otherwise they are a tool for the lazy, bad worker!
Someone from Around hereMar 29th, 2009 10:32 AM
It's even harder to get rid of a principal-if they screw up enough, they just get yanked out of their school and promoted to a district level position, sometimes with a raise.
Jen from TampaMar 29th, 2009 10:31 AM
Pat- it sounds like no one can get rid of the "Bad apples" regardless of wether teachers police them or not. I would hate this man teaching my daughter. But as a parent apparently i have no choice. I support Jebs ideas.
Dave from TampaMar 29th, 2009 10:23 AM
How about the lousy administrators and principals? Lets not forget them!!
Richard from GainesvilleMar 29th, 2009 10:20 AM
The headline writer needed a better English teacher. Do newspapers still have editors? Do writers get the same negative treatment as teachers?
john from Palm HarborMar 29th, 2009 10:10 AM
Hey Pat, welcome to the real world. In Florida, everyone else can be let go for any legal reason at any time. What makes you so special?
Jen from MichiganMar 29th, 2009 9:48 AM
Get rid of Teacher Tenure so people who are not doing good at their "profession" can easily be replaced.
Tuttle from PinellasMar 29th, 2009 9:33 AM
The bigger issue is over 35 years of a politically correct curriculum being shoved down our children's throats. It is the dumbing down of America, with the result a public so stupid they elect the same clowns over and over. End result=Obamamessiah
teacher from tampaMar 29th, 2009 9:32 AM
Do your jobs admins, and get rid of the bad ones! This is a no-brainer! Don't punish others for the actions of a few.
V from Pinellas ParkMar 29th, 2009 9:29 AM
That is insane, he's been in trouble 20 times out of his 22 years as a teacher. I'm a teacher, and I think this is ridiculous!
Hillary from Spring HillMar 29th, 2009 9:27 AM
Pat, I agree with you. The problem is that administration is worried about their own butts and the majority of these "bad" teachers are their pets. Hernando County has loads of them. The Good 'Ol Boy system is alive and strong there. Pathetic!!!!
Hernando Educator from Hernando CountyMar 29th, 2009 9:25 AM
There is no excuse that those teachers are not gone. What about the teachers that just undermine authority and try to be the kids friends? These teachers' test scores are not good because they are focusing on being the "fun" teacher. Whatever.
Marine from TampaMar 29th, 2009 9:21 AM
Is it hard to fire a copy editor (singular) even if they (plural) are bad at grammar?
Citizen from PHMar 29th, 2009 9:15 AM
Florida especially Pinellas has a low reputation for education and here is one of the big reasons why!
Eva from TampaMar 29th, 2009 8:54 AM
There are also rotten administrators who just one can ruin a potential new teacher from teaching in a county for three years because they do not like them. Even if the teacher does his or her best and tries to improve, they can still be sabotaged.
Jason r from st. petersburgMar 29th, 2009 8:50 AM
Thurman and Sachse are off their chains and should have been let go yrs ago. Considering the belligerent parents, obnoxious/violent students and spineless/racist adminsistrators, it amazes me that anyone matriculates.
John from Moon LakeMar 29th, 2009 8:47 AM
Teacher Unions are required by law to provide defense for all teachers, to not do so would open them to lawsuits. Teachers don't want these people either, they need the help of administrators to have an indefensible trail of paperwork on these people
Macy from JacksonvilleMar 29th, 2009 8:33 AM
There are also many unethical and dishonest administrators (at least in Duval County)Many will lie to fire or discipline a teacher they just don't like. Teacher evaluations are usually based on how well a teacher kissess administration butt. Corrupt
Walter C. from LargoMar 29th, 2009 8:32 AM
Clearly, it takes a lot to get rid of bad writers as well. This teacher's unacceptable behavior notwithstanding, the writer intentionally changes the facts from "by" to "behind" the dumpster to imply nefarious intent. Fire the teacher and the writer.
P.C. from St.PeteMar 29th, 2009 8:27 AM
Is this guy in denial or what? Find a way to get rid of teachers that are not fit. This guy has to go.
Jen from HernandoMar 29th, 2009 8:27 AM
The problem is principals who don't visit the classrooms more than once a year to monitor what is going on. If they stopped giving good evaluations to teachers who aren't following the rules and giving little instruction, it would be better for all.
wayne from brooksvilleMar 29th, 2009 8:18 AM
Nice article, but wrong group. Who hired these people? Are all poor teachers in the Union, not. Tenure exist because of poor managers who will play the power game and then teaching would be on par to slavery. Fix management and then it fixes this!
Mike from St. PeteMar 29th, 2009 8:14 AM
Teachers work hard and one kid can hate a teacher and make a complaint. That complaint goes into the teachers file not matter if it is true or untrue. If the teacher is really bad, than it is up to administration to prove he/she is bad teacher.
Teacher from TampaMar 29th, 2009 8:12 AM
Teachers need tenure to protect us from crazed parents who think their children are perfect angels who are entitled to everything and from administrators who try to placate parents for political and personal career advancement.
Teacher from TampaMar 29th, 2009 8:09 AM
I had a parent complain that I manipulated his son's grades for the worse and called for an "audit". My admin. tried to stay neutral instead of telling this parent to go to hell (which is what I wanted to say). His son was a lazy, do-nothing "jock"
Bland Old Isaac's Brother from New Port RicheyMar 29th, 2009 8:06 AM
Tenure protects teachers from administrations that should have been removed years ago, or want a friend in your job. There is little recourse against them, while district circles their wagons to protect. Do a story on where inept principals end up!
Jon from TampaMar 29th, 2009 7:53 AM
Even 100 firings a year (in Hillsborough) would be less than .8%. Does anyone, other than those particularly poor-performing teachers, think that sytem can't be improved to make things a little easier to get rid of the "bad apples"?
LonePalm from ClearwaterMar 29th, 2009 7:19 AM
As a Pinellas County parent (with a teacher wife), I take umbrage with Brimm's assertion that Sachse's behavior is "not a firing offense". It's frightening this man is still here. Fire him now & weed out the other bad apples to protect our kids.
Leon from LargoMar 29th, 2009 7:13 AM
What does Jeb (Bush) have to do with this goofball teacher? Pat you are so lost...this teacher should never be in a classroom-----PERIOD !
Jouelle from St. PetersburgMar 29th, 2009 5:46 AM
This is why my child goes to private school. Teachers teach on a year by year contract. Those who are unprofessional or incompetent are discharged. Teachers like Sachse would not last because the welfare of the child is the school's first priority.
Robert from New Port RicheyMar 29th, 2009 5:20 AM
BE AWARE the law and tenure is NOT a reason you are stuck with bad teachers. Allow firing on a whim and job security etc is totally gone. which is exactly what some ppl want and they use tenure etc as teh scapegoat for it
It's hard to fire teachers, even if they are bad - St. Petersburg Times
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